Exile on Main Street - 06x01

Drew Shulman: 00:00

Welcome back to Carrying Wayward, a Supernatural podcast for fans who aren't ready to let go and newcomers to the series who are ready to jump in. I'm Drew Shulman.

Marie Vigouroux: 00:08

And I'm Marie Vigouroux. In this episode we're diving into Supernatural season six, episode one: Exile on Main Street. Let's get this show back on the road.

Marie Vigouroux: 00:35

So you may have heard in our pregame episode, but if you're listening to this episode, it means that our Etsy store is now live. And not only do we have our glow in the dark Impala pins still available, but we also have our Kansas Lied tote, and I'm really just so excited about this tote, it's super high quality. We designed it in house and the printing happened like right here in Montreal. And as a tote bag girly, I am just in love with it. It is so cool.

Drew Shulman: 01:03

I like can't wait to get my hands on it. Like I'm so excited. I've never had a good tote.

Marie Vigouroux: 01:07

Oh my god, this will be your best tote. Best one. The one that I have from Vin Papillon, I have used every week for the past seven years. It's been in the washing machine. It's been in the dryer. It's excellent quality.

Drew Shulman: 01:22

As soon as I saw it, I love this like kind of like theme to our like merch we have going on. And I will admit I'm not the brightest tool in the shed. I did have to ask for the tote to be explained to me. But as soon as I understood what the tote saying, I love it.

Marie Vigouroux: 01:37

Yeah, it's the idea that like you know, Kansas said that there - Kansas the band said there will be peace when you're done and yet the show was done and there is no peace. There is no peace! It's Supernatural. So, Kansas Lied.

Drew Shulman: 01:51

Chef's kiss! So season six.

Marie Vigouroux: 01:53

Well so okay, first off, I really have to say that I did not remember this episode ending the way that it did. I didn't remember it ending this way. And I think I'm mixing up Episode One and two.

Drew Shulman: 02:04

I literally wrote all my notes for our pre-episode before I even watched episode one. So I wanted to go in as blind as possible to that description. And again, recording this I've not seen episode two. So I really just have the cut off here of this kind of like, I'm gonna be honest, very meh episode like, despite what it does, it's a very bland episode.

Marie Vigouroux: 02:25

To be fair to this episode. I think that it had to be because I think that like it's setting up so much stuff. They couldn't spend too much time on the actual monster of the week or even on everything else. Because look, look at all of the things that happen in this and the literal cultural reset that happens. They put the emphasis on that there's also a lot of character development in terms of Dean like we're seeing a lot of like what he's been through in the past year. So I think that those were the focus of this episode. And in that sense, like I'm not mad at it, but I agree with you that it wasn't very exciting.

Drew Shulman: 03:02

It just feels to me like they would have had to have aired these two episodes together. For the sake of the audience having to wait since season five I feel like just this episode as a season premiere would have been really like ugh and like shows tend to that thing where they kind of show the first two episodes of the season at the same time.

Marie Vigouroux: 03:17

Yeah, sadly that's not what happens because the other the next episode aired the week after.

Drew Shulman: 03:22

Well, that was that must be a bummer. I feel bad if you had to watch this one live but I mean, like always I'll do my recap. But like I feel like what I have rushing through my head for a recap, sounds more exciting than it was to watch.

Marie Vigouroux: 03:34

Okay, well how about you get started with the recap?

Drew Shulman: 03:37

Count me down!

Marie Vigouroux: 03:38

3-2-1 Go!

Drew Shulman: 03:39

Dean is living a normal life. Dean is happy he has, I don't know they're married. So I'll say like wife and air quotes and a kid and a normal life and he's working but he still kind of dreams about all these things in his past life because obviously it's been a year and he still misses all this and it's all still fresh and it hurts. And you can see that even in his living a normal life. He still has like the demon trap out of the door and the gun under the bed and the tools where he needs them. Like you know, he's he's out but he's not forgotten. And then something weird is happening. He's hunting something again, may have been a possum, which is his fake lie, because lying Of course, and of course life is terrible. Opossums don't carry rabies, one fact. And then it turns out a Djin's and it turns out Sam is back. And then it turns out their grandfather Samuel is back. And they're hunting together along with three of their cousins from Mary's side of the family they never knew existed or didn't know they existed. And then they fight the Djins. They win. And sounds all like you should come with us and hunt. And he's all like, Nah, you kind of threw me into this whole life with you know, Lisa and Ben, I can't just abandon them by Sam. Also Bobby's there Bobby knew too. Time. Like that sounds like it should be more exciting than it was.

Marie Vigouroux: 04:42

I'm gonna argue that it's - it's meant to be this way because this entire thing is about - I feel like also a lot of this episode is about like expectations not being met. And I feel like that in and of itself is an expectation that's not being met in the sense that like this should be a lot more exciting than it is the same way that like, Sam and Dean's reunion should have been a lot more exciting than it is for some reason, right? Like there was something off there.

Drew Shulman: 05:08

Obviously there's the giant elephant in the room, which is the whole Samuel capturing the Djin and giving that look to camera which I had to rewind. I will admit I watched it in broad daylight and in my room, I have poor lighting. And for a split second, I thought I saw yellow eyes on Samuel. I didn't - I double checked. I was crazy. But the look he gives the camera. You can see where they were going to animate the demon eyes and didn't.

Marie Vigouroux: 05:34

In terms of the long game.

Drew Shulman: 05:36

Yes, sorry. Continue. I caught off.

Marie Vigouroux: 05:38

This episode happens one year after the events in Swan Song. Like you said Dean is living with Ben and Lisa. And boy do we have stuff to talk about there in Story Time. We find out like you said that Sam is back from hell. And it's been a whole year. I thought that it was really cute that he took the time to prove to Dean that it was really him which was kind of like a callback to Lazarus Rising where Dean had to prove to Sam but it was really him.

Drew Shulman: 06:05

That was at least a cute moment of like the "I know how this game works. Let me go through the motions for you."

Marie Vigouroux: 06:11

Cas hasn't been answering Sam's prayers.

Drew Shulman: 06:14

But Dean never mentioned whether he's been praying or even trying to get a hold of Cas.

Marie Vigouroux: 06:18

We meet a bunch of Campbell relatives. Of course, they're like third cousins and stuff because like we had been told in previous seasons that all of John and Mary's friends and family had died.

Drew Shulman: 06:27

Yeah, like this is within the realm of possibility that there maybe some distant cousins they didn't know about like that. Not crazy.

Marie Vigouroux: 06:33

Samuel is back. And he makes a really interesting promise to Dean. He says, "stick around and I'll show you tricks your daddy never even dreamed of."

Drew Shulman: 06:42

It makes sense. From a storytelling perspective, the fact that John was very like, yes, he connected to other hunters. And yes, there were some moments of sharing stuff, I'm sure. But we've already gotten from his journal that he may have not been the most adept Hunter. And I feel like a hunter who was raised by hunters and also with a raise other hunters probably has a much wider breadth of knowledge and a much deeper well to pull from.

Marie Vigouroux: 07:06

you also know that John didn't play well with others and so like, like you have no other knowledge base to tap into when you're always hunting by yourself. So you know, like the Campbells kind of seem like they've been doing this as like a team, as a clan, almost, for sure the knowledge base is going to be wider. Bobby knew that Sam was back. How do we feel about that?

Drew Shulman: 07:28

That was one of my preferred moments this episode. It was like I was waiting for Sam to walk in just like you'd be like, I want to see how Bobby reacts. I was like, I was hoping for the fake out of like, oh, like Oh, Bobby don't even try it. But no, and it seems like again, we'll dig into it in Story Time. I feel like there's a lot to be said there about this whole lying to Dean thing about Sam being back and how everyone was kind of in on it. There's a lot to unpack there, but I don't hold it against anyone as much as I do Sam himself.

Marie Vigouroux: 07:58

Okay, interesting.

Drew Shulman: 07:59

We'll - we'll get into it.

Marie Vigouroux: 08:01

So Samuel and the Campbell's capture one of the Djin and they do that while the Winchester brothers aren't around to see it.

Drew Shulman: 08:09

Combine this with the fact that we are - it felt like a weirdly throwaway line. But like it stuck out to me so much this episode. And I believe it's Samuel who's describing it as like seeing werewolves on the half moon and like creatures as being more daring there seems to be this like, the sense it evoked in me was the rules have gotten looser? Like the paranormal energies of things like where normally a werewolf would need a full moon suddenly half a moon is enough because there's just extra energies around like it's almost like the the veil between worlds is getting thinner to pull reference from another supernatural-themed show some listeners I've been listening to.

Marie Vigouroux: 08:52

I was gonna say I'm like That sounds a lot like Bridgewater.

Drew Shulman: 08:56

That's where Castiel is.

Marie Vigouroux: 08:57

That's where he is. He's in Bridgewater!

Drew Shulman: 09:00

With not Nathan Fillion!

Marie Vigouroux: 09:04

Maybe he's at the pavilion.

Drew Shulman: 09:07

The civilian pavilion.

Marie Vigouroux: 09:08

Dean decides to stay with Lisa and Ben even though Sam asks him to come back into hunting.

Drew Shulman: 09:14

Again, I have incredible feelings about this, we'll have to say for Story Time because I will rant too much.

Marie Vigouroux: 09:19

Well, I mean, we're there.

Drew Shulman: 09:21

Let's dive in.

Marie Vigouroux: 09:24

So today in Story Time, our theme is respite and respite actually comes from a Latin word that originally meant - We're back. We're all the way back with Latin words and everything. And that word originally meant to consider something to look back at something. And today, it's mostly used as like to mean like a break or a grace period.

Drew Shulman: 09:47

Yeah, I think the interesting part here was hearing the word respite. It's one of those words I actually like I do know the origin was nice to learn but like I had a very comfortable understanding of it. And I think you put it here really well, because I didn't know how to really like word it properly. But it really does feel like a break, or a pause versus like being done with something like it's not like, like I would not consider retirement or respite from work. Because the intention of that would mean you're only taking a temporary break. So when everyone talks about and I think the big core thing here is Dean's big break and getting out of hunting, to think of it as respite is with the intent that he will have to return to it. Otherwise, it's not a break, it would be a retirement, or a sort of a better word to use than retirement in the sense of hunting, but like, it'd be a permanent out. This is - the idea here is everyone kind of feels like it's a break.

Marie Vigouroux: 10:50

I think it's especially true for Dean, when he tells Bobby like, "do I look like I'm out?" You know, like when Bobby is like, "Oh, you were out! You were out! I didn't want to pull you back in" and Dean is like, "do I look like him out?" And I think that this really kind of shows that like, it was a temporary break. Like there was - he wasn't really done with hunting, right?

Drew Shulman: 11:16

Yeah. So if we can dive into Dean for a bit, I'd love to just like dig in, because I have so many thoughts about this. But it really seems like Dean's respite is very clear. He's had a year off from hunting. And while we can see he's still being incredibly cautious with complete understanding, like, I think there's like a tendency to like look at it as like, "Oh, he's being paranoid," but like No, no, when you know, there's shit out there and you're taking the reasonable steps to protect yourself. That makes sense. And we also learn after he reconnects to Sam that he never really stopped him in researching ways to save him, despite promising Sam that he wouldn't. And clearly he's been like, the brain never stops. You know, while it was a break from physically hunting and fighting, he never truly left behind. A year isn't that long when you consider how many years he's been doing this.

Marie Vigouroux: 12:03

in this episode, like Dean is the exemplification of what it looks like to live with trauma. Even though his life is no longer traumatic. He still really lives all of those traumatic moments, even in like the banality of daily life in suburbia. And I think the intro sequence did a really good job at showing that.

Drew Shulman: 12:22

Fully. Like I think just making all those parallels. I also feel like there's a moment that is played very like - again, it feels like it could have been a bigger deal, but they had to like make room for other things. Was his moment when he's looking at the police scanner and talking to another cop on the phone. That - it's been a year he's been doing this nonstop. This is not the first time Lisa's caught him you know, like side hustle hunting, because how do you stop and all this to say it really, it feels like this break was forced on Dean. You know, like, not to say he doesn't enjoy not to say he's not happy. He's someone who is still willing and wanting to work forced to retire because he's like, been like, sent off to pasture like, it feels like he was sent off versus him choosing to walk away. And, you know, knowing that Sam has had an entire year and has been back and things could have been back to normal and he was not given the option, everyone sort of chose for him. You know, that's got to hurt and I understand why that would hurt. You know, why should everyone else go back to normal and he's forced to sit out thinking his brother is gone forever. And then to top that all off after it's finally revealed that Sam is back and they're hunting again. And life is back to normal everyone but him. Sam has the bloody balls to just say, "Oh, you just come back onto with us." You stuck him on the bench. And basically said you need to like protect these two people now because you dragged them into this. "Hey, forget them come back and see me" like no! What the fuck?

Marie Vigouroux: 14:04

That definitely felt like a change in Sam's approach right in that moment. And I think that there's like two things in what you just said like the first thing is the idea that like Dean's respite is like living the life that he has with - with Lisa and Ben, which like sure, it was respite in the sense that like it was a break from hunting and from the trauma that he was constantly enduring. But I would be really hard pressed to say that Dean is happy in this situation. Like the man that we saw on screen in this episode is not a happy person. Like he's not satisfied. He's not fulfilled and he's definitely not at peace. He's drinking every night. His interactions with Lisa also feel like forced or masked, like I'm not too sure exactly how to describe it very concisely. Like it's like almost he doesn't allow himself to be himself around her if that makes sense. Like you said he's also like on the police scanner he's talking to police officers that he's like, "oh, yeah, no worries, man," like, it sounds like they're buddies in a way that like even him and his drinking buddies, aren't buddies, you know, like, he looks bored at his job and in his friendships. And it really feels like the only moments where he looks relatively happy is actually with Ben. And I really think that this is super powerful and important. But you can't really be building a life with somebody on those terms. Like it's unfair to everybody involved. And I think that Dean is feeling that and I think that he feels the guilt of it too. And I think that he lives a life of isolation, basically, because of all this like, not in the way that he did before. But here, it really feels like he's living in this sort of like glass house and like no relationship is really real the way that his relationship were real with Bobby, Sam and Cas.

Drew Shulman: 15:54

You really touched on a well here and the thing to me that really stands out is that the you're right, the moments he seems the most himself, or when he's like sneaking around and like, reminder that Lisa knows what happened. Like, he may have not gone into detail and talked to her about it. Because we know Dean is not the greatest at sharing his emotions, and I think would have wanted to protect her. But it's not like she's dumb. Like, she's aware, he's a hunter, and there's things out there, like she's firsthand experienced this stuff. I would understand her being worried about Dean still kind of like pseudo hunting by like reporting things, or like keeping in touch with Bobby. And at least like, you know, "hey, like, are you okay? Let me be supportive." But the fact that he feels like he has to hide it from her is the problem, when she is the one person who probably would at least understand how hard it is to walk away from that life. But he's not doing this for himself. He's doing this for the people who think this is what he wants.

Marie Vigouroux: 16:59

And I think that that's really what it comes down to, in the end, like he does not feel like he can be himself or at least he doesn't allow himself to be himself with Lisa. And I mean, like you can't really build a relationship with with that kind of attitude, in my opinion, or like a relationship that's going to be fulfilling for both people and lasting. And then the second thing, like you said, I think is the revelation that Sam had been back for a year and Bobby had known the whole time. And I think that that really slammed Dean in the face the way that it does, at least, in part, because all of the suffering and isolation that he's been feeling was basically for nothing. Like think about it. The only reason that he's with Lisa right now is because Sam asked him to, and we talked about this in Swan Song about like how Dean was going to Lisa because he felt like it was the right thing to do. And I think that we're looking directly at what happens when you stay in a relationship because you think it's the right thing to do. And I really want to be fair to Dean because I really think that he thinks or at least he thought that the situation would be healing for him. Right? Like, I don't think that he's purposely being unavailable, or you know what I mean, like just not as present as he could be. But I also think that he underestimated like the depth and the magnitude of his trauma. And he overestimated his feelings for Lisa.

Drew Shulman: 18:31

He was encouraged to try something or to give it a shot. And rather than like, learn from the experience, and figure out what to do next, he just settled. Because this is what everyone told you. It almost feels like. I mean, I was very much raised in that way where it was like you go to school, you finish school, you get a job, like the idea of me dropping out of school was like, the ultimate betrayal to my family. And it wasn't until I got through it and realizing oh, no, school wasn't for me. I was successful. I found a job, I found love. I found a life I moved on. That I was able to look back and go like, Oh, no, no, I was right. They were wrong. But I feel like so many people, like I have friends who were forced to go through school and they did good. But they weren't any better or happier for it. They just did it because that's the way the family runs. And I think this is where Dean is he's doing what he is told is supposed to be the right move. You did your hunting job, you finished. You get the white picket fence with the wife and the kid and the beers and the job and the nine to five and you win. But that's not what Dean wants.

Marie Vigouroux: 19:45

And so this is what brings me to say that I think his respite in this episode was actually hunting.

Drew Shulman: 19:51

Oh, I'm gonna be very honest. I saw this line as we got to it and it just gave me such like a warm, fuzzy feeling of like I hate how good this is.

Marie Vigouroux: 20:03

And I want to be clear, because that's not to say that I don't think that Dean wants to retire. Right? That's not what I'm saying. But I'm saying that these circumstances are not the right ones for him.

Drew Shulman: 20:17

Like I could see Dean, retiring, maybe not in this style with a nice house and a wife and a kid. But I could see him, understandably stepping down from hunting, and taking a somewhat more Bobby-like role in other hunters' life. And not going out on the job because he understands he's reached a point where he's not at the top of his game anymore. He's ready to sit back and relax and be the guy in the chair. No pun intended with Bobby, there, using the Marvel term here. Rather than being the guy on the field, you know, he can retire at his own pace.

Marie Vigouroux: 20:50

But there you go on his terms. And I think that that is the most important part. I think that Dean wants to retire on his terms. And I think that those were not his terms. And we've talked about this in Swan Song. So this is not like a surprise for anybody, right? That's why I'm not really harping on it. But like, this is not what he wanted, really. And we're seeing it, it's very clear throughout the episode. What are your thoughts about Sam?

Drew Shulman: 21:17

Sam's respite here, there's a very obvious surface level one, which is what we all kind of assumed would be a lifetime or eternity in a cage in hell. So to get out of it, what seems like maybe after a day, maybe a few hours, seems like a pretty good break from what was supposed to be eternity, then again, mysteriously freed and rather quickly, yet he still chooses to leave Dean in the dark, in a sense not to interrupt his brother's supposed freedom from hunting, which, again, I've already harped on seems silly to me, to think he could come back and just go back to normal after revealing himself to Dean too, I think, is even sillier. You know, this really is a case of Sam wanting his cake and eating it, too. He thought he had a chance to give his brother freedom, gave it to him. And then as soon as things change for him, he goes, actually, I want you back, like your break's over come back to hunting life. You know, like, I got through this, I'm fine. Why aren't you?

Marie Vigouroux: 22:18

So I completely agree. Like, it's very, very clear that like Sam's respite, here was actually being able to leave the cage when he wasn't really meant to or supposed to. Still not too sure how that happened. But it happened, he's here. And I think that there's, you know, the change of circumstance - because that's the thing, like Sam has had a whole year to kind of think about this, whereas Dean has had like a grand total of 10-15 minutes. So it's, it's normal for maybe Sam to have had time to change his mind. Whereas Dean would not necessarily - especially now that he feels even more responsible for Ben and Lisa for having put them in the situation of having been around them and having like, basically revealed their identity, you know, so now he has to stay with them because he is responsible for them.

Drew Shulman: 23:09

And it feels so like weirdly out of character for Sam. We think of Sam, at the ends of season five, when really all he wanted to do was save the day and like see his brother happy. And here he is, understandably breaking into Dean's Life in a moment of "I have to save you, you're about to die." Like it wasn't like he was like "surprise! I'm back. Let's have a party." It was like, "we tried to keep you out of this. When we realize you were in danger, I'd have to reveal myself to you. So hey, I'm here. Surprise." It feels like up until the last moment of this episode. Like really. When he turns around to Dean and says, "You should come back with us and join the hunting again." I was floored I really got the sense that Sam's goal here was going to be "we're in, we're out, you're back to normal. Your family is safe. You'll never see us again. Like I'm sorry, we interrupted your perfect life would go back." And the fact that He then turns around and goes "well just come back with us ditch them." It felt so incredibly out of character. Like if anything that's thhe thing I think lovely. The most sour taste this episode was the combination of clearly something shady was Samuel like not even a second guess him and the kids. Something's messed up there. But Sam. And he even says it himself. And like I know obviously we're early in the season, there's probably a lot of mystery that I'll look back on this episode with and go like, "Oh, that makes sense now." But even the moment where he comments about like, Dean's willingness to run over and try to save them even though like Sam was like, "No, I knew they were done" and like Dean was like, "No, you would have gone over" and Dean's like - Sam's like "No, no, I wouldn't have" that also feels out of his character for Sam like we watched Sam last year last season, in that Pharmacy building where there were the trucks and the drugs. And Cas even says he stopped he stood there and saved every single bloody person that Sam, who was this character we're seeing today? Like what did this year was Samuel do to him?

Marie Vigouroux: 25:08

Full disclosure when it comes to Sam, I can't give my full thoughts because it would give away some plot points. So I'm speaking specifically to the listeners here, if I seem a little bit more shy when it comes to talking about Sam when I'm usually just babbling on about him, like, it's for that reason. But I completely agree. I remember watching this for the first time and being like, "What in the name of hell is going on here?" And in my mind, I was like, "Oh, my God, yellow eyes. Is it like, because? Is Sam not Sam is like, is he possessed to like what is going on?" So I immediately felt like something was off with Sam. And we'll see as the season develops, like how we feel about that, how our feelings kind of change when it comes to Sam. If we're just coming back to like this episode and our theme. I think it also seems like Sam had a bit of a break from hunting with Dean specifically, like the way that Bobby greeted Dean was different from the way that Sam greeted Dean. And like it almost felt like Sam felt more detached, maybe like maybe that had to do with the trauma of the cage. Maybe not like we're not sure yet. Right?

Drew Shulman: 26:27

Yeah, the fact that the cage isn't brought up and it's very much in a way where it's like I don't want to talk about it makes me feel like, obviously something happened we're gonna have to learn about later. But like at this point, I am - on the spectrum of Sam is just a changed person due to his experience to it's still Lucifer. They're like I am no, I'm no way leaning one over the other. Except that now I'm thinking Samuel is probably Lucifer or Azazel. One of the two.

Marie Vigouroux: 26:56

Okay, interesting.

Drew Shulman: 26:58

I'm just saying I'm thinking of demons they could bring back in the fact that yellow eyes was weirdly prominent in this episode. Before we end Story Time, can we just have a moment for like, how phenomenally horrifying that dream sequence of demons like go through is with like, Lisa burning on the ceiling and then being given the blood and like, having to relive that trauma from like that point of view? Like, if that isn't setting up something for later this season? I don't know. What is

Marie Vigouroux: 27:25

That dream? That vision is what makes Dean change his mind. Because he's, he's basically breaking up with Lisa, in the stairs at Bobby's right, like that is what's happening. Let's be very clear. And then he decides to say, because of that vision,

Drew Shulman: 27:40

it's more for Ben than for Lisa.

Marie Vigouroux: 27:41

Oh, no, I think it's for both. I think it's because he sees Lisa. Like literally, it's literally like Lisa, like status as a stand-in for Mary. And basically, it's his chance to protect like the mother figure in his new family, and the child figure which he sees as Sam. So like, Ben is Sam and Lisa is Mary. And so this is now his chance of being able to give these two people the life that he wishes that Mary and Sam could have had.

Drew Shulman: 28:14

Talk about mommy issues.

Marie Vigouroux: 28:15

Well, so here's the thing, too. I sort of want to talk about Lisa, just super briefly. Like we don't have any notes here. But like, I feel like she also - and she's very clear about that. And like the moment that like Dean tries to break up with her. She's like, it was the best year of my life. And so she's, you know, I'm not too sure how much of it is like romanticized because I'm sorry. But like when somebody is that distant with you, you can't possibly - again, there's no fulfillment, there's no this, but like, what she knows is how good Dean was with Ben. And so again, like what seems to unite them the most is this child, this boy. And she's like, I just wanted Ben to have somebody to look up to when you were that person. And so I think for her, the respite was being able to offer her son, a male role model that she could be proud of. But I think it's a lot to put on Dean.

Drew Shulman: 29:08

But I think that's also what Lisa saw, though. I think as much as Lisa may have felt the disconnect with Dean and how distant he was. I think she saw the genuine joy in him being around Ben. And I think that's what made the you're so good for her was not their relationship, but their relationship.

Marie Vigouroux: 29:24

Absolutely. I completely agree with you.

Drew Shulman: 29:27

Shall we head on over to Critical Time?

Marie Vigouroux: 29:31

This episode was written by Sera Gamble, who is our new showrunner, as we know

Drew Shulman: 29:36

Congratulations.

Marie Vigouroux: 29:37

It was directed by Phil Sgriccia and it originally aired on September 24, 2010. That was 13 years ago.

Drew Shulman: 29:46

There was that moment to reset it where it's like, oh, we keep saying the show is like in 2005. But like it's been so it's been five years since then. It's 2010, 2010 is still 13 years ago.

Marie Vigouroux: 29:57

13 years ago, indeed. So Drew, it's in the hunter's journal this week.

Drew Shulman: 30:05

I have a dream again. One where I'm some kind of Monster Killer, I guess. I drive around living out of my van and I guess like find weird things and kill them. The dream is not always the same. I find myself in different towns, sometimes there's different people with me. Some recurring others I only ever see once. I feel like they're trying to tell me something like it's a message. I know you've already told me dreams, just the brain working things out and don't have literal meanings. But, and I get it, but I hear the professional but these ones just feel different from the classic, you know, teeth falling out or forgetting about a test dreams. Yeah, thanks, Doc. I'll keep the journaling going each morning. I'll see if it helps. No, I don't know how but you're the expert. Then things are going right. I guess. I'll wake up. I'll have that dream again. living a normal life in a house, lawn, dog, working nine to five, took adult ed classes in the evening. I think I was even dating somebody at the time, and I had a therapist. Still unsure if it's what I want or what I'm afraid of.

Marie Vigouroux: 31:20

I like that, oh, my god that actually works so well with my thoughts this week.

Drew Shulman: 31:25

Oh, do they? Do share? What are your thoughts? I'm excited! I love when this happens.

Marie Vigouroux: 31:29

So I actually want to talk about the cinematography in this episode, and particularly the colors and the color grading. Because I think that both of these like visual elements are actually being used to tell a part of the story. I'd like to start with the opening sequence where like Dean is going through the motions of his life while having flashback to his hunting life. Even before that, like the scenes from Swan Song that precede that sequence. They're all in grayscale, right full grayscale, no color whatsoever. And like this, this scene from Swan Song is basically meant to be like Dean's memory that is coming back to him as he's in bed with Lisa one morning before the alarm even goes off. And that's presumably after having gone to bed away after her after drinking a couple of whiskies. So we're like immediately transported to the present time. And immediately there's like this beautiful golden ray of sunshine, morning light on Dean's face. And then we will move on to the kitchen where there's like beautiful green leaves in the window. The scrambled eggs that he's cooking are like beautifully yellow, the salt container is blue, like basically, there's lots of colors, and they're all very vivid and saturated. And this is when we start going back and forth between the present day that's presented with those vivid colors, and Dean's flashbacks. And those are all in grayscale. And I think that the storytelling that's happening here is to basically show that Dean is really trying to live in his present situation, right? Like he's like, this is so much better. I am here, this is good. I should be enjoying this. In contrast, the past is in grayscale and those are the memories. But then at the very end of the episode, the very very end of the episode, when he's in his driveway saying goodbye to Sam. The colors actually go from like super vivid and saturated while Sam's car is still in the shot. And then they go back to gray once the camera is zoomed in on Dean's face. And so what we're seeing here is basically Dean putting his life or at least his life with Ben and Lisa in his past.

Drew Shulman: 33:54

Okay, first beautiful analysis, absolutely phenomenal oh my god, I love it. I realize I did not put much of a thought into this. And now that you said it is just like magic, how well that was put together and then ending shot and ugh!

Marie Vigouroux: 34:08

like it because I saw the end. And it's like kind of just like it happens very quickly. But I was like, oh my god, like that is amazing.

Marie Vigouroux: 34:18

This week, we have a message from Nell and before we listen to it, we want to remind you to send us a three minute voicemail to respond to anything we've discussed today. You can use the recording app on your phone, and just email us the recording at carryingwayward@gmail.com We also want to remind you that Drew and I are going to be answering the question "how do you think Samuel was brought back" for Roadhouse supporters on our Impala talk. Stay to the very end of the episode to hear a very short clip.

Nell: 34:45

Hey, carrying wayward it's Nell again. I wanted to call in and talk a little bit about The Curious Case of Dean Winchester which I just listened to and as always, it was fantastic. But I want to touch a little more heavily on Dean's pep talk to Bobby. Because at that moment in time, Bobby is really experiencing some heavy, sort of suicidal ideation. And I think that's - I don't want to say that's like normal at that time. But he's he's experiencing a lot of really hard realities hitting him sort of. And so I think it's not uncommon for for that to happen. But I want to think a little bit about this pep talk Dean gives him because Dean is somebody who throughout the show struggles heavily with suicidal ideation. And I feel like the pep talk he's giving to Bobby at this time is what Dean really needs someone to say to him. That like, it's not about him being useful as a hunter. And it's not about what he can do for other people. It's about like the fact that people care about him and want him around. And I just think that's a really sort of interesting thing to touch on. Because this, this is a character, it's not like Dean's perspective is going to really shift a ton after this, like we're going to see throughout the rest of the show that he still struggles really heavily with this, this issue, this issue of being needed and being useful to people. And so I just think it's - it's a curious moment to have this happening in this in this episode. And I was also thinking a lot about the title here, because the title of this episode is The Curious Case of Dean Winchester. And obviously, that's a play on The Curious Case of Benjamin Button in which man sort of ages backwards. And so I was sort of wondering about your thoughts on why the title and why they chose Dean Winchester and not Bobby Singer or somebody else, like why they focus that - so heavily on Dean and like, obviously, like, there's the playing it up for the laughs part. But I also feel like and this is going to be a little sad and depressing and I'm sorry, because once again, I'm back with my horrifying hot takes. Dean goes to play for Bobby's life, and in doing so is sort of indirectly or maybe directly, giving up many years of his own, and he doesn't seem that upset about it. And so I think that's a really important thing to note here is that like, that, in trading for Bobby's life, Dean is - is giving up his own. And that's, I think, why, why they chose that title, but like, this is Dean giving this beautiful pep talk and still effectively doing his best to get rid of himself at the same time. Um, so yeah, thanks. I'm sorry for ending on that. I'd love to hear your thoughts will talk to you later. Bye.

Drew Shulman: 38:04

Nell,, thank you for honestly, I love this episode, it's already there. So that brings me such like chagrin, because it's actually a really sad episode. I think you really just hit the nail on the head there at the end and as sad realization as it is, Dean, at this point, and I think even where we are now, sort of has this mentality of the only way out is through his life ending. And while he is not someone who's just gonna throw his life away meaninglessly, when he has an opportunity to do something like this to save somebody else, even if it costs him part of his life. He sees it as a worthwhile trade because he believes he is not as worthy as someone else to still be around. His life is only as good as as it is to be used to save others. And I think the love and respect that he has for Bobby, which is so emphasized by his final speech, as you point out, just goes to show why he feels like Bobby deserves it so much more than he does. Not that he's right. Clearly, his life is worth more. So everyone's life is worth something. And no one's life is more than someone else's. He doesn't see that yet. And I don't know when he will. But it's really in this moment that he sees an opportunity to use his life for something so great as to save Bobby.

Marie Vigouroux: 39:29

This is literally a line on the show, right? Like, "at least my life can mean something." And then Bobby has to tell him like, like, "it didn't mean anything before?" And this happens like at the beginning of season three, I think is when we're seeing this or end of season two, like I'm not entirely sure. Yeah. Nell, again, with the horrifyingly sad hot takes, I mean, like I'm living for them, but like they're just so sad.

Drew Shulman: 39:59

Every on of your voicemails is just like 'what an amazing thought, kind of give you a hug?"

Marie Vigouroux: 40:04

Yeah, basically. I mean, listen, like, I think I'm gonna gravitate towards another side of the voicemail where you talk about Dean basically telling Bobby what he would need somebody else to tell him and I just feel like Dean often projects in that way, like, at the end of Sam Interrupted, what he tells Sam is what he needed to hear at that moment, not what Sam needed to hear. I don't think Sam needed to hear what Dean told him at the end of Sam Interrupted. I think Dean needed to hear what Dean said to Sam at the end of Sam Interrupted, if that makes any sense. So I'm just I'm not really surprised by this observation. I think it's completely accurate. And I'm like, oh, yeah, that tracks with Dean's character. So thank you so much for pointing that out for us.

Drew Shulman: 40:51

Phenomenal voicemail. Thank you so much again.

Marie Vigouroux: 40:55

Drew, what is your reflection and call to action this week?

Drew Shulman: 40:58

I think this episode reminds us - reminds me sorry, very I-statement here. I need to take a break sometimes. And that isn't a bad thing. A break can be great for your mental health, your physical health, it can be a chance to reset, a chance to look at things and kind of reflect as we do here. But it's a double edged sword. It's really easy to say you're taking a break when really all you're doing is procrastinating. So my call to action is to recognize when I need a break, versus when I'm just procrastinating and calling it a break. And letting myself think I'm getting away with something.

Marie Vigouroux: 41:43

You know, there's that a really interesting thing that I heard not too long ago where it's like, if you think that if you're quote unquote, taking a break, but you're still thinking about all of the things that you should be doing and that you're not doing. You're not really taking a break. So I feel that. Thanks for that reminder.

Drew Shulman: 42:00

Thank you. And you my dear, what are you reflecting on this week?

Marie Vigouroux: 42:03

I feel like this episode is like the umpteenth time, this week that I've encountered something that reminds me that like, trauma fundamentally changes you. And that in many ways, like there's just no going back to being who you were before the trauma. So I guess I'm feeling called to like, consider, maybe, perhaps, the concept of just accepting that.

Drew Shulman: 42:32

That's not an easy thing to do.

Marie Vigouroux: 42:33

No, it's not, at all.

Drew Shulman: 42:35

No. Like a million points to even consider it and make the conversation with yourself. That is incredible. I'm so proud of you.

Marie Vigouroux: 42:46

Thank you so much.

Marie Vigouroux: 42:52

You've been listening to carrying wayward a supernatural podcast produced by Rachel Castellano, hosted by Drew Shulman and myself, Marie Vigouroux. Thank you to everyone who's supporting us on Patreon or Ko-Fi and an extra thank you to our bunker supporters, Kateera, Elle, and Jeremiah-Thomas.

Drew Shulman: 43:08

This week, we'd like to thank Nell for her message. You can find the link to all our social media and our merch store at carryingwayward.com. And don't forget to leave us a rating and a review wherever you listen to us.

Marie Vigouroux: 43:19

And if you'd like Carrying Wayward and you'd like to support us in our project to go through all 15 seasons of Supernatural, you can support us through Ko-Fi or Patreon and you can find those links at carrying wayward.com

Drew Shulman: 43:30

Carry on our wayward friends!

Marie Vigouroux: 43:36

So I would like to know how do you think Samuel was brought back because as far as we knew Samuel was dead. Right? So like what's going on there?

Drew Shulman: 43:45

And he even specifies up there. Yeah, he was he was in heaven. He was out of heaven just like Buffy. Although I'm gonna call bullshit.

Marie Vigouroux: 43:58

Ooh, okay. Talk to me talk to me.

Drew Shulman: 44:00

That ain't Samuel.

Marie Vigouroux: 44:03

Ooh.

Drew Shulman: 44:04

I think weirdly, and like I said, I'd mentioned in the episode there was a moment with the glare on my screen after they capture this shit and you kinda like looks to camera all menacingly it felt very Azazel like, too much so. And the fact they brought his actor back to haunt Dean in two separate three separate occasions. I'm pretty sure. Yeah. i My instinct tells me whether this is Samuel just as a meat vessel or it's someone totally posing as him and it's like all an illusion. This is a demon.